Hello and welcome everyone to the Modernize or Die Podcast.

I am your host, Daniel Garcia, along with my co-host.

Jacob Beers.

Thank you.

so how are you doing, Jacob?

I'm doing great.

It's a lovely Tuesday afternoon here in Kansas City.

let's kick things off.

So he got lots of Ortus news coming up.

First up is the Ortus and the BoxLang recap from 2025.

The October recap.

We had a lot of things going on.

We released ColdBox 8, The Ocho.

a new version of a ColdBox that is, uh, works with a BoxLang native.

I don't know I'm getting tongue-tied with that.

so excited still about the Ocho.

we did talk about it last episode So if you want to catch up on all that, but lots of cool
things, they're coming.

So as we mentioned, uh, the Ocho, whether you're rest API, full stack web apps,
microservices, even desktop applications.

ColdBox 8 brings groundbreaking making capabilities that will supercharge your web
development workflow.

I just like read that off the script, it sounded like it.

No, no, no, it was totally natural.

Totally natural, okay.

Along with those sorts of things, we've got the ColdBox Tips and Tricks series, ColdBox
free tip number 10, Whoops, better exception tracking.

And Whoops is our error page, if you're in ColdBox and you wanna get an error it's much
nicer than the regular.

And so as always, our episodes are sponsored by somebody in this case, again, Ortus
Solutions, imagine that.

what specifically in Ortus Jacob

is sponsoring us?

This episode is backed by Ortus AI Services, where smarter software meets real world
impact.

Cut the busy work, automate what slows you down, and turn your data into clarity with AI
crafted specifically for your team.

Nice.

Okay, so moving on.

Well, actually, really quick before we move on, I want to draw a little bit more attention
to ColdBox 8.

Before it's too quick, I've actually had the privilege of upgrading a couple of apps from
7 to 8, and I just wanted to throw out that the upgrade path was super smooth.

I basically just had to do a Box install to get the latest dependencies because there were
a couple breaking changes, but other than that, in my application, it worked first try, no

issues.

If you're worried about it, maybe just go give it a shot and it might turn out better than
you think.

That's the spirit.

It might turn out better than you think.

No, go try it.

It's going to be awesome.

Woo.

That's the kind of excitement we need Jacob on a Tuesday afternoon.

Okay.

We'll get there.

Did you have your coffee today?

I've had two.

You get what you get.

I guess.

man.

Awesome.

Okay.

And so going up to the BoxLang news, if you have not heard BoxLang 1.7 is out.

BoxLang 1.7 introduces server sent events, SSEs, real time streaming, JDBC cache store for
distributed caching, AST generation tools for code analysis, byte code compatibility

versioning, and significant performance improvements across the runtime.

I think Jacob, this is one of the releases that you're really excited about.

You're excited about every release to be, to be fair, which is a good thing.

but there's a lot of performance improvements that you're very excited to see in this one,
I believe.

Yeah, absolutely.

They mostly pertain to application startup.

If you're using a ColdBox application, they mostly pertain to application startup because
uh it has to do with when the templates are being compiled and cached.

And so that's really gonna happen on like the first time you hit the site, but faster
startup times are always a good thing.

And then I think under the hood there are some changes too.

Well, the fine under the hood, that's a little bit broad with BoxLang.

But yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of great changes.

Look at the show notes.

The show notes.

Yep, we've increased the performance of our parser and bytecode generation pipeline.

That's mostly the part that I was talking about with uh hitting the first compilation of
it.

So that's pretty great.

And then we've had a lot of other additional like bug fixes and feature additions.

Nice.

And along with that BoxLang service and events consumers are coming.

Do you want to tell us what that it what that really means?

Yeah, absolutely.

So server-side events are actually, if you're not familiar with them, I wouldn't blame
you.

They've been around for a really long time.

Yeah, but they did not...

Sure.

They've been around actually for a long time, but they didn't get very much traction when
they were first released.

And it hasn't been, at least in my mind, until the past couple of years that they've begun
to get more popular.

But it's basically a way for the server to send events back to the client.

but it doesn't use like AJAX long polling or, and it doesn't use WebSockets.

It actually creates an HTTP connection.

And then instead of closing it, it streams data back as it goes.

So it's kind of like a, it's kind of awkward because the client or the server can send
data back to the client.

But once that connection is open, the client can't send data to the server through that
connection.

So it's one way from the server.

to the client.

And it's kind of been adopted by a lot of AI tools as a simple way.

If you have access to HTTP, you automatically have access to server sent events.

You just have to process the data, certainly.

And so they've taken advantage of that to give the experience of like streaming tokens as
soon as they're ready, kind of things like that.

this is something that Luis has put some work into to give BoxLang native support for
server sent events and make interacting with AI

models a little bit easier.

Nice.

And I think with version 1.8 is going to ship with the consumer server sent events.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm not sure when 1.8 is going to be available knowing our team and probably very soon,
but I believe it's also in the snapshot right now if you want to go check that out.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

If you install BoxLang at BE, you'll be able to test it out right now.

And BE stands for Bleeding Edge.

So maybe don't use that one in production if you don't have to, but.

True, true, true, true, true.

So next up, we've got a really nice article from our own Dan Caahd Dan Card, if I say Dan
Caahd because he's from Boston, breaking the CFM barrier, going serverless on AWS Lambda

with BoxLang.

so like most of the CF community, Dan's heard about serverless for years, but never really
dove into it for whatever reasons.

But one of these, and a pretty big one was an irrational avoidance of all things Java and
being used to the ease of spinning up a CF instance at other hosting locations.

Now, when I say that I'm actually reading what he wrote.

I'm not making fun of Dan.

Um, but yeah, just, but I feel his pain because I've always been kind of like, Ooh,
Lambda, that sounds cool, but what does that even mean?

And so he's got a blog article that talks about how to get started with that.

And it's a, it's a nice little intro into it and to ease yourself into the, the, the
kiddie end of the pool and get going.

Did you paste that?

did not, sorry.

I was enthralled by your narration.

Yeah.

man.

Are you posting it now?

No, I saw Sorry, I'm completely slacking my bad.

All right, I'm doing it right now.

Don't do it for me.

All right

need you to close Slack and focus on the podcast.

man.

Well, Jacob has his third cup, starts getting his third cup of coffee.

Next week is Thanksgiving week.

And of course that means BoxLang Thanksgiving week where we want you to code smarter and
modernize faster.

And we've got a special discount coming up.

We're doing more than just offering free deals or discounts.

We're helping developers and companies modernize their CFML apps and take the next big
step into the BoxLang era.

If you ever wondered how ready your code base is to move to BoxLang this is your chance to
find out directly from our experts like Jacob, who is one of our many experts.

and thank you.

and me, although more Jacob.

Did you paste that link?

Okay.

You know, I'm going to give you a break from pasting if you want to talk about the next
couple of things.

I will gladly accept that break.

So we've got SocketBox.

This is a new blog post on the Ortus Solutions blog.

This is SocketBox deploying behind a load balancer.

I actually uh had the opportunity to write this article.

And this is number two of our four-part series on using SocketBox in production.

And it's a really exciting piece of technology.

I didn't personally write SocketBox.

That's from Brad Wood.

But I've got the...

uh

the privilege of getting to use it and tell everyone about it through these blogs.

so there are traditionally some challenges to, in the past, WebSockets and ColdFusion have
been a little bit difficult to get working together, but SocketBox completely solves that.

It makes it very, very easy to get WebSockets up and running in your application BoxLang
and ColdFusion, as long as you're using a CommandBox hosted server.

And then it even provides some patterns for solving some of the issues that you run into
when using WebSockets.

Like if we almost 100 % of people deploy behind a load balanced architecture, and when
you're using WebSockets and that has a persistent connection to a specific server, that

can lead to some issues, making sure you're communicating with the right pieces of data
and it gets everywhere it needs to be.

And so Socketbox actually provides patterns for

making sure that WebSockets work in a clustered environment.

And as you can see in that article, it's really, really easy to set up.

So if you're interested in that, go check it out.

There's even an included repo that you can pull down and run to see things in action.

So go check that out and look forward to the next ones that we have coming out.

Awesome.

You know, I always appreciate that when there's a GitHub repo, just pull it down and run
it and it just works.

Then you can start tweaking it and playing with it.

And it's nice.

Well, along with that, we've got the, well, no, you're gonna talk about this one.

the BoxLang CompatUI.

um

the UI modules, don't you?

I don't know about that.

Another bridge from CFML to BoxLang.

We're thrilled to announce that the release of the BXCompatUI, a comprehensive UI
compatibility module, makes migrating your Adobe ColdFusion and Lucee applications to

BoxLang seamless and straightforward.

If you've been hesitant about moving to BoxLang because of your existing UI components,
this module is your answer.

So there you go.

there's a couple of different schools of thoughts when it comes to using things like this
in general.

Um, some developers are like, never keep your UI out of my code.

And then they prefer to do everything, you know, manually with JavaScript or whatnot.

And, but there's some developers that like, Hey, this is great.

Why not a couple of tags and get everything I need and go.

And so, historically there's been issues over the years with some engines and support and

providing old libraries, don't get updated and all that.

I don't think that's really the case with us because we're modern.

But it is kind of interesting to see some of the very smart people that we work with and
it's using BoxLang and just kind of going back and forth on it.

But you know what, it's there.

If you love it, use it.

If you don't, don't, just use BoxLang.

And so we got one more announcing the BX LDAP Enterprise LDAP for BoxLang.

It is available for BoxLang Plus and Plus Plus subscribers.

This is a LDAP module brings enterprise grade directory access to BoxLang.

It goes above and beyond traditional CFML LDAP implementations offering more features like
connection pooling, event server programming, multiple return formats and clean intuitive

APIs.

And so a lot of people are like, wait, wait a second.

I thought BoxLang is open source.

Well, BoxLang is open source for most everything that you need or most everything that
most people need.

But there are some modules that are going to be um commercial.

That's just, that's just the way it has to be.

And, and this is one of them.

And other ones like Redis and some of the other things, but for most people, if you don't
need LDAP support, it doesn't matter.

You don't need to worry about it, but someday you may grow big enough where you need it.

And then know that we've got it because Ortus is always trying to be forward thinking.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, speaking of which, we got your modernize your apps with a team that supports you
every step of the way, the team behind the revolution.

And this is, let me paste that link.

Just a blog post that kind of talks about who we are at Ortus, what we do, why we do what
we do, and inviting you to become a pioneer with everything BoxLang Plus.

I feel like we're just talking the same thing over and over again, which is good because
we want people to become BoxLang pioneers.

And we're all very excited about all of this.

Mm-hmm.

But coming up here, Java Pro.

What is Java Pro?

Jacob.

So Java Pro is a website dedicated to sharing information about the Java ecosystem.

So it's kind of cool.

We've gotten published there in Java Pro just recently announcing the BoxLang 1.7 release.

If you have been following along either with our podcast or with the Ortus News and things
like that, there probably isn't going to be any new information for you here in this

article.

But the thing that's really exciting about it is that it demonstrates that the BoxLang
reach is extending out to the broader Java community.

We have goals and aspirations to make BoxLang the next step for ColdFusion development.

But we also want to make it something that contributes to the Java ecosystem as a whole
and makes it easier for all.

all Java developers of all persuasions to be able to deliver faster.

And so this is demonstrating that we're taking steps towards that and it's gaining
traction.

Yep.

Just like you've heard of other Java implementations like Kotlin or Scala.

Well, BoxLang kind of fits in with that, uh, with that spirit of what we're doing with it
as well.

So very exciting.

I went to DevNexus for the first time earlier this year, and we were talking about BoxLang
with Java developers.

there was a lot, you're there, Jacob.

There was a lot of excitement from people like, Ooh, what is this BoxLang?

Ooh, it's another this, another, you could do that.

It's that easy to do that.

So there was some genuine excitement.

I know Luis has gone to Japan.

He's gone to some other conferences and overall, I think it's been a very positive
response just for the Java community and completely outside of CFML.

So it's very exciting.

Absolutely.

So uh another feature, if you wanna paste this, BoxLang's improved PDF handling.

Ray Camden has a nice little blog post about it.

Basically BoxLang has introduced a premium, again there's premium PDF plus module, part of
its BoxLang plus plan that adds powerful PDF manipulation capabilities going beyond just

creating PDFs.

With this you can perform advanced tasks such as add attachments, insert and remove
watermarks, headers, footers, delete pages, merge documents, really a lot of PDF

manipulation.

And then if you look at Raymond's article, he kind of shows a real world workflow example
of the scan of folder PDFs, trim long documents, generate thumbnails, things like that.

And so definitely go check that out.

Again, you can do a lot of cool things with BoxLang out of the Box, but some of these more
niche things are going to be plus modules.

And you know what, if they're going to save you time and solve problems, and that's what
we're hoping for.

Yeah.

And then mention it one more time, deploying BoxLang in the cloud video series on CFCast
and BoxLang Academy, led by Oscar Tisnado.

It's basically a step-by-step video series showing how to deploy BoxLang servers in AWS,
Azure, Google Cloud, a series designed for developers and DevOps engineers seeking

efficient modern cloud deployments.

And that wraps up our Ortus section.

Okay, let's move on.

Let's got some CFML updates.

And so a big reminder from our buddy, Charlie Arehart the CF 2021 is end of life as of
Monday, November 10th.

So last Monday.

It reached the end of life.

They're no longer providing updates or security patches.

You cannot buy extended support to get additional updates beyond the end of life.

So that is a common misconception.

Perpetual CF 2020 licenses will not be deactivated at through the end of life date.

All the subscription based policies only remain active while payment continues.

The 2023 license can no longer be purchased from Adobe, but you can buy a 2025 license,
um, and backward license it for 2023.

And as they, I think they

announced at the summit.

Adobe is moving to annual ColdFusion releases going forward.

Though it's unclear whether these annual versions will remain the traditional five-year
support life cycle.

A lot of that's to be determined.

But if you need that 2023 installer and you can't find it on this website, there is a
CFMLrepo.com website that you can get that from.

Uh, next up, it's a Docker blog post.

And since you're the Docker guy, why don't you tell us about that?

All right, well, this is a post from Ben Nadel about using custom font, making sure that
they're available to the ColdFusion runtime within your Docker container.

So this is important if you're going to be using like CF image or PDF tools or something
like that, and you want to be able to generate an image using a particular font.

Normally, if someone goes to your website and you load a font on the web, you don't
necessarily have to have that font.

If they're using it like from a CDN or something like that, they can get it from Google or
whatever.

But if you're generating an image, that font needs to be available to the runtime to be
able to use.

And so this blog post just covers how to make sure that you have those resources available
to your application when you deploy it.

Nice.

And then we also have another article, which apparently I don't have the link for it.

If you want to tell us about it.

Okay, sure.

So this is kind of an interesting thing, something I haven't heard of before.

I'm interested in looking more into it.

So this is about, this is from James Moberg.

It's an article about something called token oriented object notation, which I guess, uh
TOON for short, is a file format used for structuring data to pass it off to an LLM for

processing.

And it is

I guess kind of specifically for formatting tabular data so that the AI is able to process
it and do things like rag or answer questions or stuff like that.

So I haven't heard of token-oriented object notation before, but it sounds interesting.

And sounds like maybe that might be an opportunity for a new module or something like
that.

I think this was something that last episode, James was talking about where, I heard of
this thing and let me make sure that's message packs.

same thing as message pack support.

Nope.

but as usual, when James finds something like this, he's like, this is really cool.

Let me do it in ColdFusion Then he just writes a module and they do it.

And then the community, thanks them for it.

So thank you, James.

it's less complex than nested data and JSON style objects.

So that would be nice.

Okay.

Let's see if that wraps up the CFML community.

We are rolling right along on a Tuesday.

Events.

We've got some events coming up.

The first one is a CBWire free webinar, CBWire 5.

It says it's a live launch and feature deep.

for December 3rd, 2025, it's official CBWire 5 launch event.

We're gonna walk through the most exciting new features, be real components, and much,
much more.

As you can probably guess, who's gonna be there for that one.

Mr.

Grant.

our buddy senior CBWire, Grant Copley.

they updated the event.

So he's going to showcase the dot notation data props, locked data props, improved file
uploads, BoxLang support, the on secure lifecycle method and the smarter lifecycle, lazy

loading.

really something if you're curious about CBWire or even if you're using a little bit, come
on in there.

There's always going to be great stuff.

Grant is kicking butt and taking names and he's doing an awesome job with CBWire.

As always.

um Yep.

Coming up after that, we've got ColdFusion security training online from Foundeo.

It's gonna be December 9th.

I believe you could still register.

Let me just double check that.

As always, we can't say enough nice things about Pete.

He's one of the security experts in the CFML community.

When you go to conferences, if Pete's presenting, you should go and listen to his
presentation because it's very informative.

If not, sometimes a little scary, but in a good way.

And so go check that out.

Okay.

Then following that, Jacob, since you're the only, you know, conscientious person of the
group, what's, what else is next?

ah Well, we've got Into the Box 2026 coming up.

I am extremely excited about this.

It's probably, I'll admit, it's probably because I'm extremely biased, but this is my
favorite conference to attend throughout the year.

But I'm not the only one who has said that before.

I've heard even non-Ortus people say that.

So if you don't have plans to come to Into the Box 2026, you should go visit the website
and you should make plans.

to come to Into the Box 2026.

We'll have a lot of great speakers and a lot of awesome announcements, and you're sure to
get a lot out of it.

Speaking of speakers, the Call To Speakers open, just post the link out there.

We've only got, well, we're still getting some, but internally we're also supposed to be
posting and Jacob's posted like what, 12 of them now?

Seems like 12.

That might be a lot, but he's definitely leading the Ortus team on sessions.

And I was telling Dan, got a session in there too.

And I was looking at him like, Dan, I can't believe it.

Everything I wanted to present on Jacob already put in there.

So I have to figure something else out.

It's crazy how that works.

I'm like, man.

Great minds definitely thinking alike.

Coming up after ITB, CF Camp, they've got to save the date for June 18th through 19th,
2026 with a pre-conference on June 17th in Munich, Germany at the Atomis Hotel in Munich.

And so that's great.

I think they're still getting things together, but at least if you want to pencil in the
dates for that.

I know it's about a month and a half after Into The Box, so plenty of time to come Into
The Box and then go home, relax, and then go back out.

And then finally, we've got, we mentioned this earlier, but we got Black Friday deals for
the modern BoxLang developers, the whole BoxLang Thanksgiving week code smarter,

modernized faster.

mentioned that earlier, but we'll post thinking there again, because maybe you missed it
or David was having a siesta, but he's back.

Okay.

And I think that pretty much wraps up today's episode of the Modernize Or Die Podcast.

We'd to thank to all our Patreon supporters.

These individuals are personally supporting our Open Source initiatives to ensure great
things like CommandBox, ForgeBox, ColdBox, ContentBox, TestBox, BoxLang, and all the other

Boxes.

It keeps getting longer to say, I gotta take bigger breaths.

Their contributions fund the cloud infrastructure in our community relies on like ForgeBox
for package management with CommandBox.

Now, if somebody wants to support us, what can they do Jacob?

They can support us on Patreon.

And as always, when you support someone on Patreon, there's usually some associated
benefits with that.

for us, Bronze Patreons and Up get a ForgeBox Pro and CFCast subscription as a perk for
their Patreon subscription.

All Patreon supporters have a profile badge on the community website.

All supporters have their own private forum access on the community website.

and all supporters have their own private channel access to BoxTeam Slack.

So you can talk directly with us if you have any issues or if you just want to tell us how
good of a job we're doing.

Aw, nice.

Jacob, you're doing a good job, buddy.

thanks, Daniel.

You too.

Just in case, I wanna make sure you got that feedback right away.

And as always, you can see an update list of all our sponsors on the Ortus Solutions
website, ortussolutions.com slash about us slash sponsors.

And with that, we'd like to thank everybody for tuning in, whether you're watching us on
the YouTube or the LinkedIn, welcome.

It's good to see everybody.

Jacob, it's my buddy.

It's always good to see you and all the cool things you're doing and keep doing.

kind of waiting for the next VS code extension update too.

I feel like there's always something coming.

And so if we don't see you, everybody have a happy Thanksgiving next week for those in the
US and we'll see you before too long.

Take care, bye.

All right, see y'all.